BenCrowder.net

Kudos on the cooking ambition and execution.

So once you master the culinary realm, are you going to be translated? You’re pretty close … :)

Burritos every night, and Taco Bell for lunch every day . . . this from the man who doesn’t eat cookies. You should probably start paying irony a salary if she’s going to take up such a regular position at your blog.

And another thing. The feminist side of me resents your implication that all women can cook simply because they are women. More like, women can cook because they know they’re be expected to, especially in BYU society, so they better learn how.

Take me for example. I am definitely not a cook by nature. The first time I made Kraft mac and cheese from the box, I didn’t drain the water and ended up with a pot full of noodles in slightly yellow water. :D Just not a cook at heart. Same goes for my mother: I guess distracted intellectual types don’t do well in the kitchen. My father, however, is an excellent cook–his cookies are amazing. But, under BYU culture pressure, I’ve caved in, learned how to cook, and actually started enjoying it quite a bit.

Then again, I am constantly astounded by the poor eating habits of the men at BYU, so maybe there is something to this women-as-cooks thing. Just a few hours ago my roommate saved this guy in our ward who was eating peanut butter for dinner. Not a peanut butter sandwich, just peanut butter. And I knew a guy who would survive off a whole week off of only a loaf of bread. That’s just wrong.

Yes, as someone who lives far, far, far away from the bubble of BYU, I thought I’d second the opinion that that *is* rather a stereotyped characterization of women.

Where I’m at, many women would be genuinely puzzled at why you believe this to be the case.

For better or worse, BYU is anamalous with respect to the rest of the country (world?).

Analogous, you mean, perhaps?

I’m not a good cook either, and I’m very thankful for my wife. She’s great at it. Someday Ben will have to come up to Logan for some peppercorn pork and mashed potatoes. Man that’s good.

By the way… It’s not a bad thing thing that women are generally seen as good cooks. Men and women ARE different, and that’s a good thing. Obviously this is not to say that we should perpetuate bad stereotypes, but I take pride in my wife’s ability to be a caretaker. It appeals to her generous nature. When she’s sick and I try to fill in, I can’t do 10% of the quantity and 1% of the quality of her work in cooking and caretaking.

Take a compliment when it’s given. :)

Ah, well, I mispelled anomalous, but that’s indeed what I meant. :)

And I didn’t say it was a bad stereotype, but I think it’s a stereotype nonetheless.

The point was, in the social environment I live in, that’s such an old, dead stereotype that people would wonder what time warp you live in that makes you think all women are good cooks. The answer, of course, is Utah. :)

Again, I didn’t say it was a bad thing…

I should add that my wife is also a fine cook and I am not. But I *do* do all the baking. ;)

I agree with all the above points about gender roles and stereotypes. I don’t at all mind the fact that men and women have different roles–it would be terribly redundant if they didn’t.

But it doesn’t follow that because women are supposed to be nurturers that they are good cooks by nature. Women are good cooks because they put in the effort to learn and practice–just as men would be if they did.

Which is why seeing all these men at BYU without even the most rudimentary cooking skill is irritating to me. It’s not that hard to learn, and it could do wonders for their quality of life. I mean, how much skill does it take to boil pasta and veggies and grill meat? It won’t be gourmet, but it’s certainly better than *shudder* frozen burritos. So congrats on defying stereotypes, and good luck.

Rikker: Ohhhhh… My mistake I had totally misread that. Now I get it.

I only meant that there’s nothing to resent. If people want to think I’m poor because I don’t wear fancy clothing, that’s fine by me. If people want to assume that because I’m a guy I can’t cook, I’m not going to get my feathers ruffled. Of all the bad stereotypes women have against going against them, I don’t think the one about cooking is bad. I also don’t mean to imply that good caretaking is genetic. The emotions that support it could be, but yes, any guy can learn to cook if he applies himself. I was just a bit surprised that you resented the implication that women can cook because they’re women. It’s not an insult. I can see the resentment of the idea that a woman’s place is in the kitchen, but not they’re ability to cook.

I really don’t want to start a thing, here. Please, if I’m guilty of reading into your tone of voice, I apologize. I don’t mean to offend. Don’t let this come to spoon fighting.

their ability to cook…

Oops.

:D No, no. Curse the internet and the lack of inflection! I need to start putting more emoticons in my posts, or just work on developing tone. I’m not really offended, just mildly amused that anyone would make the assumption that all women can cook . . . .

Don’t worry. I rarely ever get truly upset about things, just entertained by the oddities of our world.

Same here… no resentment held or offense taken here, I was just making a statement of what I observe of the social environment around me, as someone who lives far from Utah. It’s hard to see outside the bubble sometimes.

Of course, there’s the little Utah microcosm that is our ward, where sometimes my wife (a convert of 7 years) and I just laugh at how over-the-top it all seems sometimes… the ornately adorned treats or handouts as part of a lesson, or as a thank you for something that we would’ve done without being asked anyway, or even for no reason at all!

Cooking and homemaking skills are wonderful, but those who are naturally very skilled at such things can sometimes make those who have to work at it feel inadequate. We don’t even have kids yet, and I don’t have the energy to randomly bake goodies for my neighbors.. occasionally for the home teachers, sure, but we all know people who seem to be able to do it all. And if you’re married to one, well, don’t mind me if I move in next door. ;)

Terrah: Don’t worry, I make sure to sin a little every day so I don’t get taken. :P

Everyone else: How interesting. I hadn’t realized my girls-can-cook worldview was a stereotype, but upon further thought I’m sure you’re right. Fascinating. And I certainly didn’t mean to give offense (so thanks for not taking any :)); as sixline said, if anything I meant it as an appellation of respect and honor.

I’m also of the opinion that guys should know how to cook. Including myself. (Progress report: Saturday night I had two peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for dinner because I was in a hurry and didn’t have time to make pasta. Last night I ate at my family’s, which was far better but I didn’t cook it.) I emphatically do not mean that girls should cook and guys shouldn’t. Remember, I think men should sew and watch Jane Austen movies and all that. ;) (I also think women should contribute to society, get good educations, and so on. If they really want to join the Army or work construction or other things like that, so be it, but somehow it seems a little…confused? I mean, if a girl’s dream is to be an astronaut or what have you, that’s great! But if she wants to join the Army only to prove that she can do what a man can do, because of feminist agendas and such, then that’s silly. Bring the flames on. ;))

Cooking and homemaking skills are wonderful, but those who are naturally very skilled at such things can sometimes make those who have to work at it feel inadequate. — Rikker, it’s that way with everything, isn’t it?

Thinking about it, no, I don’t think it’s that way with everything, since there are so many things that people are skilled at which I have no need or desire to do.

I can appreciate great art (to a degree.. I’m really a heathen in this matter), but as I am not an artist it doesn’t make me feel inadequate.

Likewise there are amazing athletes, but it doesn’t make me feel bad that I barely even exercise enough.

Somehow, though, in the LDS Church where homemaking is considered a profession much more than it is in the rest of the world, there is a social pressure to be as good as the real “professionals”–those who are homemakers full time, and really seem to have born with that calling, they’re so good at it. Others, who may be balancing homemaking tasks with full or part time jobs, or even just struggling to keep up with the workload of homemaking (and it is as heavy as any other job, certainly), may feel inadequate, because it’s an issue of basic quality of life. Or perceived quality of life.

I’m not saying the Martha Stewart types are intentionally creating this feeling of pressure to keep up, but I think we can’t pretend it doesn’t exist.

That said, I think the answer doesn’t lie in the natural expert homemakers toning things down, but rather in those who struggle with it to not feel compelled to keep up with the Sister Joneses.

Does that sound reasonable? That the solution is to be content with what we have and do the best we can to further develop our own unique set of gifts and talents.

But maybe that’s easier said than done. :)

Rikker’s got the point exactly. The problem is that everyone expects all women to be good homemakers, therefore those who aren’t feel bad. Again, I could point to my own family, where my mother frequently laments her own homemaking skills in comparison with the matrons of the ward. It’s resulted in much depression and strife in my family.

And on the flip side, I don’t think that the stereotype is that great for women who are domestic. Instead of being recognized for their achievements and hard work, as they might be in any other profession, their accomplishments are slighted and ignored because they are simply expected. For some people, homemaking really is a talent, and they should be admired for that.

So, I wouldn’t say that stereotypes are good for anyone.

*sighs*

Nevermind.

Rikker: I agree — those who have talent ought not to forge a fake humility in order to please those without it, since the Lord gave them that talent for a reason. We’re not supposed to flaunt it, of course, but neither need we be ashamed of it. It’s up to the rest of us not to covet the gifts which haven’t been given to us. I think we can still work towards them, though, with healthy desire, but all in all it’s best to be content with what we have and do our best to become better.

Liz: I don’t know that the homemaker stereotype causes people to slight and ignore the naturals; in my case, at least, it’s more awe-inspiring than anything.